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Post by Kenny on Jan 2, 2005 21:20:55 GMT -5
There was a thread on this board about Hades vs Hell. Can some informed soul bring me up to theory on this.
Thanks, Kenny
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Post by rgrove on Jan 3, 2005 11:36:29 GMT -5
In the vernacular hell is used for both hades and the pit of fire where hades is thrown on the day of the Lord. Hades is where unbelievers go now, but it's only a foretaste of things to come. The real deal is still down the road a bit.
Rev 20:11-15 - Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
The second death would be the real hell. This is paralleled in a sense with heaven. Right now those who have gone on to be with the Lord living in a foretaste of what it will be like when we are renewed in the new heavens and the new earth. But in the vernacular everyone just uses the word heaven to refer to both.
Ron
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Post by Kenny on Jan 3, 2005 22:38:34 GMT -5
Yes, Revelation 20 is what got me interested in it. So it is a Biblical doctrine...wonder why I have never heard of it in my church. Is that all there is to share on it? What is it like in Hades? Is it about the same as 'Hell' or the pit of fire?
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Post by rgrove on Jan 4, 2005 0:58:16 GMT -5
Yes, Revelation 20 is what got me interested in it. So it is a Biblical doctrine...wonder why I have never heard of it in my church. Is that all there is to share on it? What is it like in Hades? Is it about the same as 'Hell' or the pit of fire? I wouldn't be too hard on them. I'm sure most of the lovely saints in your church aren't spending a great deal of time dwelling on the intracies of the doctrine of hell. I think most Christians are happy to generalize it all into a place they're overjoyed, by God's grace, they don't have to go... Perhaps Luke 16:19-31 will shed some light on the differences for you. www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=luke%2016:19-31&version=47Luke 16:19-31 (English Standard Version) The Rich Man and Lazarus 19"There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.' 25But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' 27And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house-- 28for I have five brothers --so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' 29But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'" From the verses above we see Jesus speak about what appears to be the intermediate state of both the redeemed and the curseded. We may note a few general conclusions without becoming dogmatic on details. After the rich man died he went immediately to a place Jesus refers to as Hades. He is "in torment" and "anguish in this flame". We also note that there is a great chasm between the rich man and Abraham and the poor man that is "fixed" and that "none may cross". I try, personally, to remain as exegetical as possible and not get crazy with details about the language used to describe Hades or the pit of fire, which is the second death. I am certain that Jesus was pressing the limits of human language to explain this awful end. Jesus has many other statements describing hell, but sometimes it's hard to tell whether he's refering to the intermediate state or the final state. Regardless of which, IT'S ALL BAD! A study of the doctrine of hell is so horrible that many evangelicals are turning to something called "annihilationism". In case you run into those teaching annihilation (John Stott being one of the most widely read) I recommend Dr. Robert L. Reymond's Systematic Theology. Chapter 26 is entitled "Downgrade Trends in Contemporary Evangelical Eschatology". Right after the section entitled "Denial of a literal return of Christ" he "annihilates" (pun intended) the theory of annihilation in a section called "Eternal Punishment Construed as Annihilationism". In it he goes over all of the relevent passages regarding Hell and discusses the one I gave above. Of course it's with an eye towards this other teaching, but it gives excellent exegesis of the text. Hope this helps. In Christ, Ron
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