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Post by Alejandro on Jul 11, 2005 17:21:56 GMT -5
This discussion came up today in another board I frequent.
I do not believe this for several reason, but I was wondering, what do you believe? (and if you chould, share what Scriptures, if any, led you to that conclusion).
Be blessed, Alejandro
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Post by rgrove on Jul 11, 2005 17:51:22 GMT -5
"Once Saved Always Saved" (or OSAS as many abbreviate it) is an antinomian perversion of the original Calvinist doctrine of "Perseverence of the Saints". If you look up "Lordship controversy" or something like that on Google you'll find tons of back and forth on this. OSAS basically says that if you make a profession, and then fall away from that profession, you're still saved. It's a perversion of the gospel that Paul addressed several times, most forcibly with a "God forbid!". I've had people tell me that you could become a Satan worshiper and you're still saved. That's just plain crazy talk and a perversion of the very ideal of grace. My pastor knew a guy in Bible college who kept working over a janitor there. The janitor finally let him do a sinners prayer for him. The fellow excitedly told my pastor that the janitor was now saved. My pastor couldn't believe his ears because this janitor was always very hardened towards the gospel so he went to the janitor to inquire. The janitor said he did it to get the guy off his back because he wouldn't leave him alone, but of course he didn't believe in Jesus. My pastor approached the fellow classmate and told him about this hoping to discourage such methods again, but the classmate insisted that the janitor was still saved because he said the sinners prayer after him. God would honor this by His grace despite the intentions of the janitor. Now let's be frank here. This is radically unbiblical teaching, but it's the heart of OSAS in the minds of far too many. It reduces Christianity to a magic trick. Say the right words and you're saved. In OSAS' more popular form it says that you can have Jesus as Savior, but you don't have to accept Him as Lord in your life. Every aspect of the Bibles teaching on salvation millitates against such a belief. Perseverence of the Saints says that once God has begun a good work in you, he will finish it. All that the father has given the son will be raised up on the last day. This isn't because of anything in the saved person, but because God is working in the person and through the person to accomplish his salvation. God is the one who perseveres and continues to sanctify us even though we continue to sin and we don't deserve this loving gift of salvation from our creator. Perseverence of the saints, then, strictly adheres to the order of salvation in Romans 8:29-30: " For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." All of those He foreknew were predestined, called, justified, and glorified. He doesn't lose any in this process because we are a love offering from the Father to the Son as it says in John 6:37-40: " All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." Those who fall away were never truly part of the church for a variety of reasons (Matt 13:1ff). We know them because "they go out from us" and because Jesus will tell some, who were clearly part of the visible church, "Away from me, I never knew you." Here is the what the 1689 London Baptist Confession has to say. www.art-brand.com/glencullen/confession.html#Chapter17That wording is mostly taken from the Westminster Confession of Faith (Presbyterian), but it's the confession of my church and will provide a starting point for discussion. Yours In Christ, Ron
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Post by melinky on Jul 12, 2005 13:35:15 GMT -5
I don't believe once saved always saved. I do believe that a person who is truly saved will not tend to fall away though. Here's another way to look at it:
“So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.” (1Cor. 10:12-13, NIV)
I believe that if a person TRULY accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior, that person will tend to grow in faith and won't fall away, not to say that it never, or can't, happen. I think the ones that do fall away never really, truly accepted Christ in their hearts. I think the difference is in accepting Christ in your heart as opposed to accepting Him in your mind or in word only.
Yours in Christ,
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Post by Soulfyre on Jul 15, 2005 16:00:27 GMT -5
It is difficult to add to the points made by Ron and Melinda. Salvation, from our perspective, is a present-tense phenomenon--a dynamic, immediate relationship with God. Both the past and future are essentially inaccessible to us. We are continually to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in us both to will and to do His good pleasure." This does not mean that we work to achieve our salvation. It is more that we endeavor to ensure the validity of our salvation. Yet we always tread a fine line between legalism and antinomianism--in fact, Truth is ALWAYS a fine line. We do not obey to become children of God. Rather we obey because we are children of God. God has even made provision for us should we stumble. Yet am impenitent and stubborn sinfulness reveals an unregenerate heart. Ultimately, we cannot know the final spiritual state of others (although the church is to treat the stubbornly impenitent like strangers and unbelievers, refusing them communion). But we can be continually aware of our own relationship to God. In essence, it is a sort of "pray to God, but don't stop rowing". Jesus did not die for us that we might "drift" into heaven, but that we might have the strength to row against the current, trusting in God to complete the good work He has begun in us. In Christ, Matthew (soulfyre)
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