Does salvation occur at a point in time?

[Soulfyre]

Does salvation occur at a point in time? If so, at what point does it occur? If not, how are we to understand the word "salvation"?

God bless you all,

Matthew (soulfyre)

[fairbank]

Is there a difference between when salvation is accomplished, and when it is applied? It is applied when the heart of an individual is changed from stone to flesh, which we call conversion, or regeneration. This is the work of the Holy Spirit. But salvation seems to me to be developing over time...Conceived "before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians), accomplished on the cross, confirmed with the resurrection of Christ, applied at conversion, consummated at death, and/or the eschaton...what do you all think?

[melinky]

fairbank said:

Is there a difference between when salvation is accomplished, and when it is applied? It is applied when the heart of an individual is changed from stone to flesh, which we call conversion, or regeneration. This is the work of the Holy Spirit. But salvation seems to me to be developing over time...Conceived "before the foundation of the world" (Ephesians), accomplished on the cross, confirmed with the resurrection of Christ, applied at conversion, consummated at death, and/or the eschaton...what do you all think?

Beautifully said Fairbank, but it brings up a question. Is there a difference between being accepting Christ (being saved) and salvation?

Melinda

[fairbank]

Melinda my sister in Christ, great question! You do like to get right to the point, don't you! I believe that to accept Christ is the sign that the Spirt has changed your heart, and therefore is a salvation (or conversion) experience. Tell me your thoughts, and bless you.

Eric

[melinky]

I think that accepting Christ is just the beginning. I think there are many reasons people accept Christ, fear of damnation, obedience to what they believe they are supposed to do, or simply because someone told them that they need to. While I see this as a necessary step in the process of salvation, I don't think it's "total" salvation. I think that total salvation comes when one is able to accept God's grace. Does that make any sense?


Melinda

[fairbank]

Yes that makes sense. Allow me to point out that definition of the term "accepting Christ" may need further elucidation. I do not want to equate "accepting Christ" with an emotional decision, response to peer pressure, "walking the aisle", or intellectual assent. James indicates that the demons believe all the right things. They know the truth, but are not saved.

By "accepting Christ" I am referring to someone responding to God's grace with faith in Christ to save them from their sins. In other words, accepting Christ is not the cause of a changed heart, but the result of a changed heart. So, in that sense accepting Christ is salvation. To your point, many people believe they have accepted Christ, only to find out later that they have accepted a trimmed down version.

[melinky]

fairbank said:

...many people believe they have accepted Christ, only to find out later that they have accepted a trimmed down version.

What would you call a "trimmed down version"? I think I understand, but I want to make sure.

[fairbank]

Geez Melinda: with my fondness for vague generalities you keep insisting on specifics...good for you! By a trimmed down version, I offer this: imagine a male lion with a shaven mane. We perceive him to be less threatening, and smaller than he really is. But he is still a lion. So with the Lion of Judah, many come to accept him as "gentle Jesus meek and mild." He is a kind Savior who has guaranteed their eternal life by saving them from their sins. Not a bad deal.

As they grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, they find Him to be the one to whom judgment is committed. They find Him to be the one who said "I came not to bring peace, but a sword." While they believed they made a wise decision to follow Jesus, (they did) now they realize that the Spirit enabled them to do so. Perhaps they came to faith thinking that prayer was a way to change God's mind. Upon maturing in the faith, they realize that we are commanded to pray because of how it changes us.

I suppose that is what I meant by trimmed down. Not so much inaccurate as inadequate. Not untrue, but not the full truth. Bless you sincerely,

Eric

[mpethe]

I see at least 2 distinct aspects of the Christian life here... namely: Justification and Sanctification.

Justification (as I understand it) would be the moment in time that you are saved. I think Paul uses it as a legal term; the image is that the Judge has declared you to be "NOT GUILTY" in the courtroom of heaven. It is a one-time event and as Melinky said - coincides with receiving God's grace.

Santification would be the continuing process of becmoing holy, more like Christ, growing in knowledge and spiritual maturity.

So, in a sense... justification is just the beginning!

But in another sense... it is all we need to be saved.

Fairbank - I think your point about "accepting Christ" is excellent. It is quite probable that many think they have "accepted Christ" only to realize later that they had not.

[melinky]

fairbank said:

Geez Melinda: with my fondness for vague generalities you keep insisting on specifics...good for you! By a trimmed down version, I offer this: imagine a male lion with a shaven mane. We perceive him to be less threatening, and smaller than he really is. But he is still a lion. So with the Lion of Judah, many come to accept him as "gentle Jesus meek and mild." He is a kind Savior who has guaranteed their eternal life by saving them from their sins. Not a bad deal.

As they grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, they find Him to be the one to whom judgment is committed. They find Him to be the one who said "I came not to bring peace, but a sword." While they believed they made a wise decision to follow Jesus, (they did) now they realize that the Spirit enabled them to do so. Perhaps they came to faith thinking that prayer was a way to change God's mind. Upon maturing in the faith, they realize that we are commanded to pray because of how it changes us.

I suppose that is what I meant by trimmed down. Not so much inaccurate as inadequate. Not untrue, but not the full truth. Bless you sincerely,

Eric

I suppose someone has to keep you on your toes!! LOL ;D

So now my question would be, is there not salvation with the acceptance of a "trimmed-down" Jesus? I have a feeling that many of us, or at least I can say this of myself, start as a spiritual child with the trimmed-down version of Christ and slowly work our way toward spiritual maturity and a weightier version of Christ. But I think that might be what you said.

[fairbank]

Excellent question once again Melinda. I believe "yes" is the answer. Even if we are initially confused about the specifics (who isn't), if we recognize that we are sinful and Christ is not and that is why we need Him, that is the essence of the gospel.

[Kenny]

mpethe said:

I see at least 2 distinct aspects of the Christian life here... namely: Justification and Sanctification.

Justification (as I understand it) would be the moment in time that you are saved. I think Paul uses it as a legal term; the image is that the Judge has declared you to be "NOT GUILTY" in the courtroom of heaven. It is a one-time event and as Melinky said - coincides with receiving God's grace.

Santification would be the continuing process of becmoing holy, more like Christ, growing in knowledge and spiritual maturity.

So, in a sense... justification is just the beginning!

But in another sense... it is all we need to be saved.

Fairbank - I think your point about "accepting Christ" is excellent. It is quite probable that many think they have "accepted Christ" only to realize later that they had not.

'Tis what I believe...I also agree with the accepting Christ thing and all - because that would definately explain the reason for "christians" who are not being convicted for their actions, they may think they are saved, but truely are not.